[00:00:01.150] - Pam
Hey, fellow math-ers! Welcome to the podcast where Math is Figure-Out-Able. I had to swallow. I'm Pam Harris, a former mimicker turned math-er.

[00:00:11.750] - Kim
And I'm Kim Montague, a reasoner who now knows how to share her thinking with others. At Math is Figure-Out-Able, we are on a mission to improve math teaching.

[00:00:19.350] - Pam
We know that algorithms are amazing historic achievements, but they are not good teaching tools because mimicking step-by-step procedures actually traps students into using less sophisticated reasoning than the problems are intended to develop.

[00:00:33.060] - Kim
In this podcast, we help you teach math-ing, building relationships with your students, and grappling with mathematical relationships.

[00:00:39.540] - Pam
Thanks for joining us to make math more figure-out-able.

[00:00:44.370] - Kim
Hello there.

[00:00:45.320] - Pam
Hey. So, Kim, last week we talked about this kind of cool thing that I saw that has kind of been helping me think about some of the ways that we do stuff. I love how it fits kind of our paradigm. Out there in the world, if you want to Google it, it's called The Results Pyramid. Now, I'm going to be really clear. This is based on my understanding of the Results Pyramid, so somebody might be out there going, "I went to the official training, and it's slightly different." That's okay. This is how we're using it at Math is Figure-Out-Able. So, just there we are. So, picture a pyramid. The very bottom of the pyramid is experiences because experiences are necessary to influence your beliefs. That's the next rung up. So, we have experiences that influence, and impact, and drive our beliefs. And then our beliefs impact, and drive, and influence our actions. That the actions then therefore produce results. So, the pyramid looks like experiences are kind of the bedrock basis, and then beliefs are kind of... Come out of that, built on that. And then actions kind of happen because of that. And we get the results at the top. And last week, we talked all about how often we just sort of say, "Ooh, we want better test scores, so do these actions, teachers." Or, "Students, we want you to get more things correct, so solve the problem in this way." But what we don't maybe have thought about. Let's be clear, because we weren't taught this way. We were taught exactly that way, right? Do these things, so you'll get these results.

[00:02:09.830] - Kim
Yeah.

[00:02:10.350] - Pam
We're suggesting that if we give kids and teachers experiences, math-ing, so that they own, they believe that Math is Figure-Out-Able, then that influences their actions of solving problems using what they know, logicking their way through the problem. Those are actually the actions of mathematicians, the mental actions mathematicians do. And therefore, we get results of correct answers, but also more people math-ing. The doors to everything are opened up to more people because everybody now believes that math is figure-out-able and that they can math. So, experiences impact beliefs, influence your actions, that therefore create results.

[00:02:50.000] - Kim
Yeah. We've been talking about experiences, not necessarily with this pyramid, but just experiences in general for quite some time. You know, we talk about how we have students in our classes who have more experience math-ing and less experience math-ing. Maybe their parents, you know, did some stuff with them when they were growing up, or maybe they had a teacher who gave them more experiences. But I think I want to be clear here because we're talking about experiences that we don't just mean do more of the same thing over and over and over again. When we say more experiences, we mean varied experiences, different kinds of experiences. Because everybody, everybody's reached in different ways. So, anyway, I wanted to say that. And...

[00:03:29.770] - Pam
Can I add on to that?

[00:03:30.890] - Kim
Yeah, sure.

[00:03:31.770] - Pam
And we want to help learners learn multifaceted. We want them to have a deep understanding, not just a one-way. You know, one shallow, kind of one neural connection. You want to have dense connections in your brains. So, that's another reason we want varied experiences, for everybody, even those students who look successful.

[00:03:53.220] - Kim
Yeah. I mean, I'm actually thinking specifically about fractions. And we've spent a lot of time. People ask a lot after, especially after the fraction workshop. That, you know, it's chock-full of different kinds of experiences that kids can have. And if we just did the same one thing over and over again, they wouldn't be as connected, wouldn't have as much deep understanding of fractions. I found a review that I wanted to read. And I usually start with this. But here's an experience. So, this person, Jstingerbenton, said, "I love podcasts. For over a decade, I've been listening to education-related podcasts on my commute to school." It's a great use of time.

[00:04:28.920] - Pam
Nice.

[00:04:29.280] - Kim
"When I started a new position as a math interventionist, I searched for a podcast that could help. Finding Pam and Kim has changed my life. I began listening 3 years ago to become a better teacher, but in the process, I have gained so much awareness about my own mathematical thinking. I'm now able to take my newly found knowledge and confidence into the classroom and share with students and among colleagues. With so many fixed-mindsets and 'fake math-ing' that exists in schools, it feels like an insurmountable task, but I'm convinced that the Math is Figure-Out-Able movement will prevail. Spread the word!"

[00:05:02.190] - Pam
Aww.

[00:05:02.610] - Kim
So, you know, I love this one because Jstingerbenton has had experience listening to the podcast that then changed their life. They gained awareness about their own mathematical thinking. It is nudging them to action, to take that knowledge into the classroom and share with students. And I believe that they'll get results. But it just exemplified for me this Results Pyramid that you're talking about. Gaining experience and understanding and learning in a podcast is one type of experience that you can have.

[00:05:36.390] - Pam
Nice.

[00:05:36.570] - Kim
Thanks for listening, Jstinger.

[00:05:38.170] - Pam
Yeah, Jstingerbenton. Thanks. So, the experience of listening and engaging in the math that we do during the podcast can impact your belief. Where Jstingerbenton said, "I'm convinced Math is Figure-Out-Able. So much more awareness of my own mathematical thinking." That influenced Jstingerbenton's beliefs, which then influenced actions in the classroom.

[00:06:00.960] - Kim
Yeah.

[00:06:01.530] - Pam
Knowledge, and confidence, and sharing it with students and among colleagues. Which therefore has then resulted... Resulted? Resulted in results. There's got to be a better way to say that. And so, we're trying to spread the word, Jstingerbenton. And thanks for the 5-star review and the words because that definitely helps more people find the podcast. And we're hoping that it's an important experience for many of you that were like me that grew up thinking math wasn't figure-out-able. Or like Kim who grew up thinking that math was figure-out-able, but in school you do this other stuff.

[00:06:32.040] - Kim
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[00:06:33.950] - Pam
Nice. So, Kim, what are some other experiences, because we're talking about varied experiences here, that you, listeners, might consider as you progress, as you want to learn more about math being figure-out-able? Let's think about the Results Pyramid. You want to get the results in your classroom, so you're wondering what actions to do, so we want to impact your beliefs. What kind of experiences could you get to sort of make that happen?

[00:06:57.770] - Kim
Yeah.

[00:06:57.790] - Pam
So, Kim, I have a quote. Oh, did you want to say something first?

[00:06:59.750] - Kim
Well, yeah, I was going to say what's great about podcasts is that you can do them on your commute. But there might also be other kinds of experiences because you can't see. We don't have a... We have an audio podcast.

[00:07:11.050] - Pam
Yeah, for lots of reasons. And so, the visual is not there. So, yeah. It's a great lead into the experience I was going to mention. So, Laura Breaux, who's taken many of our asynchronous online workshops, said, "I am amazed at how transformative all of the workshops are. I've been teaching for 23 years, and I've never felt so prepared to implement new learning from a workshop." So, let me take that quote apart for just a minute. I would invite everyone to consider that what we do in our asynchronous online Building Powerful Mathematics workshops is we do a lot of experiences. We do a lot of Problem Strings and Rich Tasks where teachers are really engaged, experiencing real math-ing, and so then that impacts their beliefs. Which is why I think Laura can say transformative. Like, that... When you say "transformative", I don't think people think about that as just an action change, right? "Transformative" means that it's really impacted the way you see things and believe in things.

[00:08:12.810] - Kim
Yeah.

[00:08:13.370] - Pam
And then that resulted in the action that she feels very prepared. "Never felt so prepared to implement new learning." She feels prepared to implement new learning. That action. She's implementing that new learning. And bam, getting results. And Laura, you're getting great results. Like I said, she's one in our asynchronous workshops, so we hear from Laura a lot. She's also in our coaching group and just doing amazing things to get those results. All based on having these experiences that impacted her beliefs about math being figure-out-able, impacted the actions that she now feels so prepared to implement, which then gets results.

[00:08:51.320] - Kim
Yeah, I think Laura probably also listens to the podcast. So, it's like a double dose, right? Like, you get one thing from workshops. You get one thing from podcasts.

[00:09:02.640] - Pam
Mmhm.

[00:09:02.800] - Kim
So, it doesn't have to be either or. You don't have to find the one experience that's for you. Sometimes you like this. Sometimes you like that. And all of that creates that same kind of denseness, density that we talked about earlier with kids, that we want them to have variety, so that it's not just the one same thing over and over again.

[00:09:21.510] - Pam
Again, because the denseness, like you just said. Yeah, nice. So, I'll do another quick quote. Alyson Cullen said, "The relationships I developed from taking this workshop have built my confidence..." See that belief in there? "...working with fractions. Now, I know that fractions are figure-out-able." Ooh, again, belief. Fractions are figure-outable. "Thanks to this workshop, I have learned activities..." Ooh, things to do. "...that I can use with my students to help them develop powerful fractional understanding. My understanding..."

[00:09:50.290] - Kim
Which gets you results.

[00:09:51.490] - Pam
Which gets you results. Very nice. And then, I love this imagery that she uses. "My understanding of fractions used to feel like shining a flashlight on a small spot. I had lots of understandings which I could move the flashlight around to see, but lacked the big picture and connections. Now, the light switch is on, and I no longer need a flashlight." Oh!

[00:10:15.910] - Kim
That's beautiful.

[00:10:17.440] - Pam
That is like poetic!

[00:10:19.110] - Kim
It is.

[00:10:19.300] - Pam
Like, it's so nice. Does anybody else feel like that's your kind of? That is such an image of my understanding of math before I found out that Math is Figure-Out-Able. It was all these little bits of things, and if I kind of looked over at them with a flashlight, then I could kind of make some sense of some of it.

[00:10:36.860] - Kim
That's such a beautiful image. I feel like you and I had a conversation. Or I don't know if it was on the podcast or somewhere else recently, where we were talking about the more deeply teachers, people, own any particular content, the more they can flow between things, and they can kind of like step back. I feel like we talked about this on an episode.

[00:10:57.860] - Pam
The lights on.

[00:10:58.000] - Kim
Yeah, they can let go of the like, "This, this day. This, this day. This, this day," because they see how it's all connected.

[00:11:06.820] - Pam
Yeah, it's not this pinpointed flashlight. It's the whole light. The whole light is on. It's like the sun is shining. That's very nice. Let's turn to another kind of experience that most, if not many of us, can take advantage of. And that has to do with coaching. So, I'm going to quote Susan Smith, who said, "I am so impressed not only with all the content available, but the organization of the content. I can already tell that choosing to join Journey..." That's what we call our coaching program, teacher coaching program. "...was a worthwhile decision that will greatly impact my teaching and my students the upcoming school year and beyond." So, I'll just note that she joins our teacher coaching program and says, "I can already tell that it's going to be worthwhile," because it's impacting the way she thinks about teaching. So, you can see the belief sort of shifting. Like, I believe this is going to impact. And then she's going to put that into action. Those beliefs are firing her or influencing her actions that will help her then sort of move forward with her students and beyond. Sort of nice. Another person that talks kind of about coaching and what it means to be in a community. Tara says, "I'm a Journey member..." Again, Journey is our teacher coaching program. It's a community. "...and convinced my principal to register our other grade 3 teachers. We've learned so much and our students are too. We were able to watch at our own pace and watch and learn together as a group." So, now we have this camaraderie, and community, and being able to ask questions when you have them and get feedback. Yeah, go ahead.

[00:12:46.240] - Kim
Yeah, I'm glad that you're mentioning Journey because there are really nice experiences. Tara's got a sweet situation here where their principal joined like all of their team together to be able to be coached together and do things together. That's not always true. You know, we do have plenty of people in our coaching program who are solo. And...

[00:13:06.300] - Pam
Which is a big reason why they've joined the coaching program, right. They're looking for that.

[00:13:08.790] - Kim
Right. And so, they get camaraderie, and they get to be coached together. And, you know, maybe they're the only teacher that teaches that thing in their school. Or maybe they, you know. But for whatever reason, and so...

[00:13:19.050] - Pam
Maybe have colleagues who are not really interested in shifting. They're not interested in gaining new experiences. I worked with seven delightful men who were like that. They really were. They were great. It was me. Well, maybe they were 8. I always used to say me and 8 men. That was the math department at one of the schools I taught at. But they weren't interested. So, I was craving input and feedback from a consistent, coherent place. And that's what we try to provide in our coaching program. Where teachers really feel like they have community and coherent, consistent input and feedback on making math figure-out-able for themselves and for their students. So, Kim, another experience that I'm thinking about. You know, we have a lot of leaders that listen to the podcast, and I wonder how many leaders were like, "Oh, man. I sure wish you had something like that for coaches." Well, let me quote Lorna. She's an Aussie who said about our coaching program, our leader coaching program, "Math is Figure-Out-Able is so powerful. I mean, how often can you reach out to the podcast creator..." That's us. "...and have an answer to your question within hours?! The fact that I feel so comfortable asking questions and never feel dumb for asking what might be a really obvious question is why I love it all so much. Especially as a leader. I'm always happy to admit I don't know something, but I also rarely have people I'm working with who know the answer, so having this great Journey community to ask and get help has been fantastic." So, she mentioned Journey because We have our Journey teacher coaching and we have our JourneyLEADER, Leader Coaching program. So, listeners, we are inviting you to consider what opportunities do you have to take advantage of coaching at your campus, coaching at your district level, coaching community at your... Golly, how do I say this? Your NCTM local affiliate and your NCTM state affiliate if you're in the United States or Canada. Those teacher associations that can provide some of this community and some of this support and coaching. What are those kinds of? We're noticing a lot of brand new teachers. I shouldn't say brand new. A lot of younger teachers who are kind of choosing to not join in professional associations or choosing not to go to conferences. Boy, we would really invite you to reconsider that decision. You know, I hear a lot of sort of the What Gen is that? I was about to say Gen Z, but is that even? I don't know.

[00:15:44.310] - Kim
Oh, I have no idea.

[00:15:45.100] - Pam
A lot of younger teachers. Because see... Are you a Boomer? I think I'm a Boomer.

[00:15:49.040] - Kim
I have absolutely no idea.

[00:15:50.980] - Pam
I'm hearing a lot of younger teachers say things like. "Well, I'm not getting paid for that." Or, "That's out of school hours." And I get that. I understand the desire to have, you know, boundaries around your work life and everything. But I'll tell you, I'm going to quote Ray Barton, a wonderful mentor of mine early in my career, said, "Get out of the four walls of your room or over time they will close in on you. They will collapse in on you." That means get out, get some coaching, get some colleagues. And if you can't do that where you are, check out our teacher and our leader coaching programs called Journey and JourneyLEADER to help you gain the experiences that will help firm up your beliefs, that will help you then take actions that are based on those and get the results that you've been hoping for.

[00:16:39.590] - Kim
Yeah. And I don't think that it's about which experience is the best first experience or the next best experience. It's that we want you to have varied experiences. It's not about the best or the right one, but varied experiences, and pick from all the options that you have available. It's huge for impacting your life as a teacher and a leader.

[00:17:02.320] - Pam
Absolutely. Yeah. So, if your goal is to make math figure-out-able, we invite you to check out the Math is Figure-Out-Able community and the things that we offer, so that you can choose from those and we can support you in your journey to make math figure-out-able. Y'all, thanks for tuning and teaching more and more real math. To find out more about the Math is Figure-Out-Able movement, visit mathisfigureoutable.com. Let's keep spreading the word that Math is Figure-Out-Able.