[00:00:03.260] - Pam
Welcome to the Math is Figure-Out-Able podcast. I'm Pam Harris, a former high school math teacher, university lecturer, writer, speaker, and founder of Math is Figure-Out-Able. At Math is Figure-Out-Able, we are on a mission to improve math teaching. We know that algorithms are amazing human achievements, but they are not good teaching tools because mimicking step-by-step procedures can actually trap students into using less sophisticated reasoning than the problems are intended to develop. In this podcast, we help you teach the mental actions that mathy people actually use when they math, where students grapple with and use mathematical relationships to solve problems, and in the process, learn what it means to math. Where the goal is not just repeating steps to get answers but teaching deliberately and intentionally the mental actions and mental maps, so that students are math-ing to their full potential.

[00:01:08.790] - Pam
In this episode, I'll be continuing to discuss a white paper that we have co-written with Dr. Catherine Beals, who is currently the Director of Special Programs for Blaine County School District, and before that was the Mathematics Coordinator at the Idaho Department of Education for seven years. Like the last episode, I'll be reading parts of this white paper and commenting on the main points. Cathy Beals and I met when she presented a session at NCSM in 2025, where she compared the Science of Reading and mathematics education. We met and decided to work together on a document to get that information out to more people, especially to practitioners, teachers, and leaders who want to understand.

[00:01:57.150] - Pam
At the time this episode drops, we will have given this paper out at the national NCSM and NCTM conferences, and you can download it at the link in the show notes or at bit.ly/mathedreading.

[00:02:12.330] - Pam
bit.ly/mathedreading. The document is called Comparing Mathematics Education to the Science of Reading. In the last 2 episodes, I discussed the parts of the paper that acknowledge that reading educators call evidence-based teaching practices the Science of Reading, and mathematics educators call these evidence-based teaching practices evidence-based teaching practices or high-leverage teaching practices. We also discussed that while reading educators have consensus around a definition of their discipline, mathematics educators do not have that same consensus. Mathematics educators disagree.

[00:02:55.850] - Pam
We also discussed that language arts literacy is the comparison to mathematics. Reading is a subset of language arts literacy and does not have a narrow-part analog in mathematics. Therefore, what refers to one may not simply transfer to the other. In the last episode, we discussed that while there is a general consensus in the public about what it means to read, there is no consensus in the general population on what it means to do math. Because of that lack of consensus, assessment can be tricky to discuss.

[00:03:31.630] - Pam
Are we assessing correct repetition of procedures and correct answers? Or assessing how well students are math-ing, using the mental actions that mathy people actually use when they math? One word about the fact that I'm saying "mathy people". That does not mean I think that there is a math gene and some don't have it and others do. We can all be mathy people when we are actually math-ing. If you're not math-ing, but you're rote memorizing and mimicking and calling that math, well, then you're not math-ing, yet, but you can.

[00:04:04.360] - Pam
And it is my mission to help everyone be the best mathy person, people that they can be. The last thing we discussed was the role of explicit instruction. And because we do not all have a common definition of what it means to do math or assess math, many math educators do not all have the same definition of what explicit instruction even means or what its role should be. If you have not yet, I invite you to check out those two episodes because much of this episode follows from those important points. In this episode, I'll focus on much of the rest of our document.

[00:04:42.500] - Pam
First, we'll address the question, what are the components of learning in each discipline? About reading, I'll quote from the document. Quote, "Learning to read is the product of word recognition and language comprehension. The subcomponents of these two components are represented visually in Scarborough's Reading Rope." Unquote. We show the graphic of that reading rope that illustrates many different components of reading weaving together to end up with skilled reading. Quoting from the math section of our paper. Quote, "One influential framework proposes that learning mathematics involves 5 different proficiencies: adaptive reasoning, strategic competence, procedural fluency, conceptual understanding, and productive disposition.

[00:05:34.940] - Pam
The math braid from Adding It Up provides a visual image of these 5 proficiencies." Unquote. We show that rope that intertwines those five proficiencies. So, reading has a rope. Math has a rope. In our paper, we also address the question, how does neuroscience inform each discipline? Quoting from our paper in the reading section. Quote, "Brain researchers have identified areas and networks of the brain involved in processing print, speech, sounds, language, and meaning.

[00:06:08.530] - Pam
Learning to read is taught to the human brain through explicit instruction, repetition, and practice to build connections between these networks. Learning to read does not come naturally to humans. Stanislas Dehaene.."— and I may be pronouncing his name wrong— "...is a pioneer in the science of reading and wrote a book called Reading and the Brain: The New Science of How We Read." Unquote.

[00:06:34.850] - Pam
Similarly, we quote about math. Quote, "Brain researchers have identified areas and networks of the brain that visualize magnitude and connect those visualizations to language and symbolic notation. While the symbolic code of mathematics must be taught to the human brain, humans are born with an intuitive sense of quantity and ability to visualize and recognize mathematical ideas such as patterns, shapes, comparison, and magnitude. Stanislas Dehaene calls these the number sense. He wrote a book about how the brain learns mathematics called The Number Sense." Unquote. Next, we tackle the question, what is the research tradition on teaching practices?

[00:07:20.770] - Pam
And for this one, I really hope you're looking at the paper. From the reading section. Quote "Research on the Science of Reading is robust and also ongoing. Five decades of research inform the Science of Reading with strong collaboration and consensus between different research genres. This graphic demonstrates that the Science of Reading is the intersection of the other disciplines." Unquote. And we have a great graphic inspired by Cathy Beals that shows overlapping circles that all gather together around a larger circle.

[00:07:55.800] - Pam
The large circle says the Science of Reading. The smaller circles list cognitive psychology, communication sciences, developmental psychology, linguistics, school psychology, education, implementation science, neuroscience, and special education. All of these overlap and come together to create the Science of Reading. The next graphic in the math section shows separate circles, not connected or overlapping, that are all over the page, and the text reads. Quote, "While there are also five decades of mathematics education research, less collaboration between research genres means less consensus. Studies about methodologies in mathematics education are often interpreted differently.
Historically, mathematics intervention research has received far less energy and funding than reading intervention research." Unquote.

[00:08:54.310] - Pam
The circles that are kind of all over the page contain child development, cognitive psychology, special education behaviorist, special education constructivist, RTI, math education, neuropsychology. The big takeaway here is that less collaboration between research genres means less consensus. We next tackle the question, does universal screening work the same in both disciplines? From the reading section, I quote, "Learning to read is a combination of word recognition and language comprehension. Early reading screeners that focus on decoding skills have been strongly correlated to future reading achievement.

[00:09:38.180] - Pam
Thus, early reading screeners focused on decoding skills provide some level of confidence about a child's future reading achievement." Unquote. This probably makes intuitive sense to you. Since students need to learn to decode as they are learning to read, a screener that helps identify how students are doing with decoding is helpful. Now, before I read the math section, it's important to remember from the last episodes that reading is a part of the overarching field of language arts literacy. Decoding is a part of reading.

[00:10:14.380] - Pam
So, overarching language arts literacy, within that is reading, and within that is decoding. Recall that mathematics is the overarching field that does not have a narrow part analog to reading. From the math section, I'll quote, "Research on predictive indicators in mathematics is not as robust as the research on predictive indicators in reading. Most math screeners do not provide a targeted focus on any one component of mathematics achievement. Because mathematics achievement is multifaceted, it is difficult to design one assessment that is effective for universal screening." Unquote.

[00:10:54.560] - Pam
Because mathematics is the overarching field that does not have a narrow part analog to reading, universal screening is not quite the same in mathematics. Leaders and policymakers should not assume that screeners in reading will work the same in the broad field of mathematics. We next address the question, how do multi-tiered systems of support help? MTSS has certainly become the thing with many ramifications for instruction. Some good, maybe some not so good. From the reading section. Quote, "MTSS provides a framework for the early identification of risk and immediate instructional response that improves outcomes through prevention of and intervention for reading difficulties. Many states provide funding for literacy intervention. Practices are guided by a well-established research field." Unquote

[00:11:50.150] - Pam
Now reading from the math section: "MTSS can provide a framework for the early identification of risk and immediate instructional response that improves outcomes through prevention of and intervention for mathematics difficulties. Schools often do not have funding for training, additional staff, and resources needed for math intervention.
There is much less research to guide intervention in mathematics compared to literacy. This is an emerging research field." Unquote.

[00:12:23.850] - Pam
I invite you to consider that if mathematics is the broad overarching discipline that we know it is, then teachers will need training and resources to recognize good screeners, administer them well, and most importantly, know what to do with the results of math screeners. Let's be clear that the most important outcomes are teachers helping students to become better at math-ing, learning the mental actions of reasoning mathematically. Does each discipline have a call to action? I'll quote from our paper. Quote, "The Science of Reading says, 'Literacy success for all is the defining human right of the 21st century, regardless of zip code, ethnic origin, dialect, or language.'" Unquote Unquote. Quoting from the math section. Quote, "Bob Moses, founder of the Algebra Project, promoted that math is a civil right." Quote, "Economic access and full citizenship depend crucially on math and science literacy." Unquote, unquote. What are some important takeaway points? Well, first, if you hear someone say that the Science of Reading is the same as the Science of Math, realize there is no consensus in mathematics education called the Science of Math.

[00:13:46.100] - Pam
Two, if you hear evidence-based math instruction, know that six professional mathematics education organizations agree what those look like. Three, we cannot assume that what we know about reading intervention will necessarily work well in math intervention. We end our paper with a call to action. Let's please advocate for high-quality mathematics instruction for all students. Be informed, share what you've learned, arm yourself with facts to dispute claims that are untrue, and push for more research. You can download our paper at the link bit.ly/mathedreading.

[00:14:29.270] - Pam
That's bit.ly/mathedreading. Download it and share it. And please share these podcast episodes. That's bit.ly/mathedreading. Thank you so much for your interest, for tuning in, and for teaching more and more real math. To find out more about the Math is Figure-Out-Able movement, visit mathisfigureoutable.com. Together, we can spread the word that Math is Figure-Out-Able!